The reasons why I quit WAOA (and HSAU)

Okay, me not being that great at roleplaying isn't the only reason.

There's more.(for WAOA)

1) I honestly had little in common with most of the other players except Pokemon.
-A) The only arc I really wanted to do was the Quest 64 arc. The ammount of people interested was 0. Meaning that there wasn't a single reason to bother developing Brian, Mammon, or Guilty any further. Especially after Brian broke up with Garcie. But although Mammon and Lillian got along great, the big ole' demon didn't do anything at all.

2) Homestuck. Not that it's bad or anything, but it was used so much that it drove me off. I couldn't stand how overused it was.
-A) This somewhat applies for pokemon. I love the series, but the fact that we see basically no gijinkas of other series is kind of lopsided.
-B) Speaking of that, pretty much nobody liked Digimon(except Mimi, which I didn't even know, and Ajbcool, but he doesn't really play), and those were two of my best characters. I'm not going to bother with something no one really cares about(Matice and Toyagumon, btw).

3) My roleplaying skills. Honestly, I'm not very good at them. But you know that already.

4) Raidou. I'm not so much calling you out, as the fact that the last thing you said to me when I left is that you didn't believe that I could stay away for long. You refused to even give me that chance. That really hurt, man. Honestly, I have little reason to come back from that alone.

5) My characters. Most of them were terrible with a small list of those who weren't. And those were one-offs(Goro, for example). Bassy was horrible with no redeeming factors. Nobody liked "Raven" anymore.(or probably in general these days, except maybe Cly and Raidou a little) Sure, my current list was decent, but they were boring as all hell. Shao Kahn sat around doing nothing. Amy was still just a giant bitch. Doomtrain was no better. Diabolos was about the only one that wasn't a problem. Daisy was eh at most.

...Feel free to reply.

For HSAU

1) Way too much fourth wall breaking
-A) Or metagaming, really. Yeah, I know I had Narrator who does that, but he never told a character where they came from or ever made it a major problem. The two particular offenders are Shiningknight and Mister Awesome. Shiningknight has actually acknowledged this problem and all. Mister Awesome refuses to, which pisses me off to no end. Either follow the rules, or I'm not coming back.

2) The ecchi.
-A) There's a bit too much on Cly's end. But he's gotten better. Mister Awesome, on the other hand... eegh... yeah, it's not like I don't like it, but I want to roleplay, not describe every last detail. I'll read a lemon somewhere else, please.

3) Gender Ratio
-A) This one's not nearly as important, just a pet peeve of mine. Why do we have 3 times as many female students as males? And it just happens to be Cly doing this so he can do more with Lesbian preferences. Yeah, the reason is obvious, and its tiring. I know Sun has trouble playing male characters. That's fine. There's no reason why Cly has to introduce yet ANOTHER female character. Nobody else has these problems.(I'm not terribly good at playing decent females, that's why I don't play so many)

...Wait, what? One of the reasons you left was just to spite me because I jokingly said you wouldn't be able to stay away for long?

...I...I don't know if I should feel offended, or just plain confused...

No, Raidou, it's the reason I'm staying gone. And I really couldn't tell it was a joke at all. Not when you were pretty much troll-facing me overall.

...You're planning to stay gone...just because of me.

...Am I getting this right?

Only one factor, really. Not just because of you, though.

...I see.

Well then, uh, unless you have any further need of this thread, I'll ask the admins if they think this thread should be locked since it's fulfilled its purpose of stating your reasons.

Is that fine with you, or do you think you'll want this thread to remain open?

Might as well lock it, since nobody cares enough to acknowledge it anyway. Or any other point at all. I'd leave it open till tomorrow for responses, though.

This isn't a "read-only" thing. I was actually expecting a few more responses than this, honestly. I guess I got my hopes up for barely anything.

If you haven't noticed, the chat's the place that people frequent. Not the actual forums. You'd be hard pressed to find actual topics being responded to.

Plus, it reads more like a general statement then a thesis. If you had asked for comments twoards it, or asked anybody else why they're staying instead of leaving, then I can see how it'd invite discussion.

In fact, I commented since you specifically mentioned me in such a negative light, and I had absolutely not clue what I even did that warranted such negative commentary twoards me.

I believe that is all I need to say on this. I'll PM the Admin and Co-Admin and tell them if they haven't read this already. I formally apologize if I said something negative twoards you. I do not believe my comments were directed to be negative towards you.

I took it as negative for the reason I explained well above, but yeah. I forgive you for all that.

Also, edited a bit to ask for comments.

And since nobody really cares enough to post... yeah, you can consider my quitting permanent.

Well, what is there to say? There's nothing I can say that I haven't already said. I'm just glad you don't think of me as one of the reasons you left.

Well, actually, Lem, you could still work a bit on playing less egotistical characters here and there.(though Ba'al and the other related characters are fine) It is kind of hard to play with you at times since I myself don't know Touhou at all(save the characters, somewhat), and about the only one of your Gijinka I liked was your Gardevoir. Hard to remember her name...

I don't mean any offense, but I don't think I could roleplay with only you alone(anymore). It's probably also because you keep forgetting to specify your character's name, leaving us to second guess it all the time. I know Katsuun does it too, but he's not in this topic right now. *yawns* ...6 hours isn't much sleep right now.

Long story short, you're not the one of the reasons I left, really, you're just not one of the reasons I'm coming back... :(

Eh, I don't think my playstyle is going to change any time soon. I don't really think I play that many egoistical characters really, just characters who are not as kind, accepting or selfless as many of the regular characters. That stems from my "realistic" approach, wherein I try to play the characters how it makes sense for them to be, derived from their Canon personalities and backstory, and not as how some may want them to be. I know that this isn't always appealing to different people's playstyles, but as long as there exists non-violent interaction, I don't see any reason to change. Also, I don't bring in difficult characters like that without reason. Usually I've got something planned for them, preferably in a way that brings them into direct interaction with other people's characters.

So...yeah. If you don't like roleplaying with me, I understand, but as long as that is an opinion shared only by you, I'm not going to change my playstyle.

That's because nobody else is replying in this thread to agree or disagree with that, to be fair. Probably could join the chat and ask about that.

But yeah, Lucchi was terribly difficult for me to play off of. Because she ignored characters, not so much the whole "above everybody else". That can be worked with, but you can't interact if they won't acknowledge them, so... yeah.

Not all of your characters are bad like that, though. I enjoyed playing with Grace, for exampe. Not to mention, her reasons for how she felt about Gabriella and Amy's relationship were understandable and all.

I haven't commented on it in this thread 8ecause this thread seems to 8e a8out Hydro leaving and not Lem's play style.

That said, although I think it would 8e nice if Lem had a character who stuck around longer now and then, I see no reason he should have to change his play style. It's not 8re8king the rules, and the things he does makes sense (as opposed to some of the a8surd things people do, like Desdendelle's character's "8erserker rage" and his other character's snot-8ats. And aside from a slip-up or failed experiment now and then, which is something we all do, Lem is defin8ly one of the people I enjoy playing with.

Going 8ack on topic, I really have no further comments on Hydro's reasons for leaving that I haven't already touched on in the chat.

Thanks, Oz.

Still, Lucchi was one character, who had a very special personality (and purpose). She was supposed to be cheerful, ditzy, but also somewhat oblivious, which meant that some things did not interest her at all at times. That is a rule that goes for many of the other characters as well in the game: if it makes no sense for the character to care about certain events, they will ignore them.

And Lucchi was supposed to be difficult to interact with. That's just how it is sometimes. My character-ideas are sometimes not there just for your or anyone else's entertainment; they're usually there for mine. Also, I thought your Mammon was hard to interact with as well, but that didn't mean that I didn't feel you shouldn't play him like you did.

You're welcome, Lem. Aside from a few things (which have 8een discussed at length 8efore so I won't get into them again) I have always really enjoyed playing with you, especially during the Ozzy arcs. The only other thing I'd say to you is not to take the game so seriously sometimes. I don't mean "make the game all lighthearted fun all the time", I mean not 8eating yourself up if someone doesn't like your character or if something you do doesn't go quite as planned. Fun writing/storytelling/character-8uilding exercise aside, deep down it's still just a game and supposed to 8e for fun.

And anyway, a lot of players have had characters that aren't easy to play off of for one reason or another (too arrogant, too trigger-happy, too cold/distant, too a8surd and random, too cruel, too one-dimensional, completely different type of genre than what I am familiar with, etc.), and I wouldn't be at all surprised if people had pro8lems playing with some of mine sometimes for some of these reasons. And it doesn't usually mean it's a 8ad character (aside from the "too one-dimensional", especially if all of a player's characters suffer from this).

I just figure to look for a character you can play off of, or try to come up with a way to interact that doesn't seem forced, especially if it's someone you enjoy playing with. (Though at least in my case if the majority of someone's characters are difficult to play off of, I'll just play with someone else instead. Especially if it seems like the pro8lem is with the player rather than the characters and just 8ringing in someone different won't really make it 8etter.)

This kind of dou8les a 8it as an explan8tion of my own pro8lems 8eing inspired in the game sometimes; if all that's going on is, say, gir's insulting/random character reacting to desdendelle's snot 8ats while Travis Touchdown looks on, I'm not really going to 8e a8le to find inspir8tion to play 8ecause I don't play off of those characters well.

Didn't realize that you made Lucchi somewhat harder for some characters to play off of. For in-character reasons, but still. Rule of thumb: If you're the only one amused, then maybe it's not that great of an idea.

And the only thing that made Mammon hard to play off of was his puns, unless I'm missing something.(I probably am...)

Also, what Ozzy said about those three specific tropers. Gear is somewhat better of the three, but I really only like Gaara.(and even then, the self contained stuff was a tad bit annoying.)

Well, I did say it in those very terms in one of the Discussion-posts following the hubbub around her. :|

But, really, the real subject here is that the two of us play the game very differently. I concentrate on specific stories and ideas in short bursts because I can not appear every day to keep a character with the group consistently due to my messed-up timezone placement and general busy schedule. This means that I can not adopt an easy, laid-back style where I have my characters shoot the breeze with the others in The Group on the days I haven't got anything in specific planned for them. Of course, my goal is still to interact with the other characters in an interesting and creative way, but these days I have to rely more and more on using the days I have got in an efficient manner. You, on the other hand, can (or could) appear every day, and thus build up character development and interaction in a calm manner.

What I am trying to say here is that I feel that none of those methods are wrong. It may seem difficult for the two to co-exist, because of the differences between my focused effort and your calm style, but that's because we approach the game in very different manners. Also, I am well aware that some of my characters do not clash well with other people's characters. Lucchi, on one hand, was a very bad fit for your characters, because you did not like how I portrayed my idea and your characters did not get Lucchi's attention. This means that you will not have as much fun in playing with her. Grace, on the other hand, was someone who had a thought-process you personally understood and which directly involved your characters. And that was a much more positive result for you.

I can rarely please everyone. I've said it before, I play this game a lot for myself, to test my own writing and ideas. But I follow the rule to at least interest and please one character or player. That also means that sometimes someone are not as interested, such as yourself.

Please, understand this. I do not want you to feel miserable or unhappy. But we all base our own playstyles on an individual basis, which means that they will differ in certain manner of ways. If enough people disagree with my playstyle, I will reconsider it, but thus far I really don't see the problem.

I guess that character just was bad for me to interact with, that's all. Kind of what I meant in the other post. Not in any way saying your play style was bad, though. Or I'm not trying to if it came off as that.

I thought Mammon was an easier character for others to play off of. Though I don't know why you think he wasn't, Lem, since nobody really answered why -he was hard to play off of-.(unless it's just the puns..., but nobody agreed or disagreed in that in general to what I asked earlier)

Also, I'm not visiting the chat any time soon(and you can't really save data there, so I forget what people say there. Doesn't really help me at all to say it where it's easy to forget and eventually gets erased). That's why I made the topic, so the actual opinions and thoughts can be "immortalized", if you will.

Any other words, mostly of what everyone said in the chat I can't remember. So... yeah.

Well, it certainly sounded like that. :|

My problem with Mammon was that I found him to incredibly dull, to be brutally honest. Besides his size and his bad puns, he seemed to have no real characterization. I found next to nothing in his actions that inspired me to interact with him. That's pretty much it.

That was pretty much the problem with almost every one of my characters in general. Which is pretty much why I quit in general. Just wasn't good at making anyone really interesting enough. I'm boring.

He obviously reflected that. I'm not sure I would say he had NO characterization, as he was a kind Noble Demon, basically. Just not enough to be interesting. I don't have a great sense of doing well with characterization(doesn't help that one of my favorite games has little to no characterization for nearly everyone, with barely 1.5% of the characters, and by this, I mean Quest 64.)

Pretty much the only way to describe Cyber Amy was a Perverted Tsundere Bitch(with a heart of gold... kind of). And she was my longest character.

I honestly didn't mean it that way, Lem. I was just annoyed at the "higher than thou" look she had.

Right. I thought I might as well add my own two cents to thing arguement. I don't expect it to be WORTH anything in most people's eyes but I'm damned to give it a try. I also apologize if this makes matters worse.
====
1) Okay, I can sympathize with that. I, too have very little common ground when it comes to most subjects that are brought up at the RP and most of the time am simply left clueless at what the hell everyone else goes on about. Everyone's basically the same in this regard as I'm not really interested in what's popular and am more into the obscure things...yet still have a basic idea of others.

...And even when it comes to something I don't know, I at least give it a try to find out and get a rough grasp of it. Knowledge is power, after all.

1A)I know how you feel. There's plenty of ideas we want to share and throw out, but most of the time they don't get enough, if any attention. Because I KNOW my planned arc would've been doomed to failure, I simply decided to change it into a small fic that could be considered a scenario that occured in the background. ...But, yeah. When your characters don't have much purpose...then we run into problems.

2) Again, Homestuck's popularity seems to be a rather intimidating feature to this RP and there's rarely a day that passes without a reference being made to it. I have to agree if does get a bit jarring to constantly see this kind of things but considering I've got no real choice but to grin and bare it because the group usually seems to be getting over referencing this sort of thing.

2A- ...Can't really find Gijinkas for anything else that I'd be interested in. The slow internet speed makes this worse. And to save space and not put in 2B, I'd like to say I didn't really get much of a chance to watch Digimon so...sorry...

3) Wouldn't say your skills suck. I mean, I'm certainly no expert in this regard considering my skill compared to everyone else seems somewhat laughable...yet I've been learning from my mistakes and those of others to know what I can do and what lines I shouldn't cross.

4) Well, if you ever do come back, be assured I'll be waiting for you. You're a pretty decent guy and seem to be rather determined to not give up RPing since you're still hanging around at the High-School topic.

5) ...Well, at least there was still some qualities about the group that was likable. I mean, they all had a heart at least and seemed to be good people most of the time. I mean, we learn from our mistakes and we simply keep improving. I've gone through multiple drafts and ideas for Wren and I'm still not sure if he'll ever be perfect considering the mistakes I've made with him. Really.

Anyway, I can't really do anything else but respect your decision.

...There really isn't much to say, because well over half of this is personal opinion that I can't really refute or argue with...but whatever.

1)If this is about characters from series we've played that next to nobody has learned of, I can name two characters off the top of my head I've played that come from series that absolutely nobody heard of before now; Vivian from Tokyo Red Hood, and Seinie Miyazaki from Hekikai no Aion. Heck, my first character was Devil Summoner Raidou Kuzonoha. He was about as well integrated with everybody else as oil to water, at first.

I think one should play characters that they'll personally enjoy playing. Aka "Play characters you'll have fun with". Having them connect and/or play off other characters is nice, but if that's the sole reason they exist, then it's a lot harder to play them because you're dependent on the other player to be around...

If this is about the socializing thing where we find common ground on favorite movies and vidya gaems...well, considering how much you've discussed at length with some of the other tropes things such as Final Fantasy, Sonic the Hedgehog, Transformers, Mega Man, Power Rangers, Mortal Kombat...

1a)I...barely remember much mention of that arc, and there was little buildup to it...or if there was, it passed right over my spacey head. If that was the case, I retract my statement of there being little buildup or mention of it. That's just me.

In general, I've scrapped plenty of ideas and arcs because they were either unfeasible or I had doubts about it working. It happens to everyone. We either adapt the arcs to accommodate, or leave them for a rainy day. There's no shame in it.

2)It's a fad. Homestuck's essentially a fad. Fads come and go. If Lemurian is right, there used to be Vampires left and right in this RP. Same with Touhou. The amount of bullet spewing lolis that were around are still somewhat mind-boggling. Warhammer 40K could have gone that route as well. I'd question whether you actually even attempted to read Homestuck or just completely avoided it simply because it was popular, because of both the amount of times you've stated you will never read it and how you never get any of the references, but that sort of question seems far too confrontational, so you don't have to answer that if you do not want to.

2a)Considering that Gijinka are generally associated with Pokemon (Google), and in fact practically all Gijinka were Pokemon from the start, that doesn't really seem as bad as it sounds. Although, I'll say that I have too little understanding of Pokemon beyond the first three generations, so whenever people play a Zekrom or Zebrastrike Gijinka, I'm left in the dark. I don't really mind, though, as it's the person who plays those Gijinka who is supposed to enjoy playing them, not for me to.

2b)I like Digimon. I watched it back when it was still broadcast on Fox Kids. I'm just not a raving fan about it. Nor were there any Digimon avatars I was interested in playing at that time. Just me. Speaking for nobody else here,

3) Personal opinion, can't state anything objective. I could say "you're not nearly as bad as you think you are", but that's my personal opinion. Nothing nearly as objective to comment on it.

4) ...That actually kind of hurt. I know you don't think you're calling me out, but by stating that one of my actions led to you leaving and saying that's a direct result of you never wanting to come back...in many ways, it does feel like it. Well, you know now that I had no intentions of being antagonistic twoards you in saying goodbye to you, but still...I honestly have no idea how I can possibly defend myself any further on that other then I hope you still don't hate me...

5) Again, personal opinion. I could say "I doubt any character, much less one filled with such remorse as Bassy was, is beyond any redemption whatsoever" and "Amy was not nearly as much of a bitch as she used to be", but...well, that's just my interpretation. Nothing objective to say...

...Well...that's it. Truth be told, I was initially recalcitrant in responding to his topic because I had no idea that you actually hated me, and I didn't want to say anything that could make it worse. But, someone had to say something, since you were leaving it in the open for all to see...

I do think you are a better roleplayer than you think you are. However, the way you keep claiming otherwise has honestly driven me away and made me stop caring. I've been reluctant to post until now because I really didn't think there was any point, what with how stubbornly you believe that you're terrible an will never improve. But I guess I can add a few things.

1. Again, like Rai, I didn't see much buildup for this. It was mentioned a couple times in passing, but that's about it IIRC.

2. I'm not going to be apologetic about this. I like Homestuck, and the fact that everyone else does and makes references to it is not going to deter me. I mean, I don't know much about or particularly care about Disgea at all, but I'm not going to tell Wren and Raidou to stop playing characters from it because I know they like it. Perhaps it is a fad to some extent, but it's also my favorite webcomic, so forgive me if I happen to like talking about it.

I know nothing about Digimon, which is why I don't play characters from it. Really, other than Pokemon and Yugioh, I don't know much about any of the Mons series. I guess I could bring in a gijinka from the latter for the lulz/just to be different, but that's about it.

I have nothing to say about 3 or 5 because, again, it seems utterly pointless to try to refute them. I'm actually kind of shocked that you'd completely misinterpret Raidou's obvious joke, though. I mean, wow... sometimes I really think you don't have a sense of humor, to be perfectly honest.

Hopefully this didn't come off too mean. That wasn't my intention at all.

I don't hate you, Raidou. I just... don't take negative jokes very well. Bad childhood for that. As I said, I'm sorry for misunderstanding.

I like the played characters of Homestuck, just not the overused references. Basically, Vrischole, Jacky, Snowman, Beclarity, and Feferibot. The thing is, I don't want people to feel like they should stop referencing it just to make others happy. It may be one of the reasons I left, but that doesn't mean you should stop, you know what I mean? I don't plan on really reading it, though.

As for the Quest 64 Arc, it was the only literal reason that Mammon and Guilty were brought in.(and pretty much every single other Quest 64 character was tied to it in some way) Not to mention, they existed for that purpouse alone.

Nobody really showed interest in how I played Toyagumon out-of-character. I hope bringing Matice down to normal had helped.(atleast I worked within the game without it being an annoying reason, or some Reality Warping. Might've felt like an Asspull, though...)

...The reason I keep saying I never improved, or improved little, more accuractely, is because it's true. I only slightly improved in that my characters interacted more with the group, that was it.

If there was some way to redeem Bassy, it was lost quite some time ago. I had no ideas, and the lack of replies told me nobody else did. As for Amy... she was annoying most of the time. Not nearly as bad as "Raven" on that scale, but YMMV there.