The reasons why I quit WAOA (and HSAU)

First topic message reminder :

Okay, me not being that great at roleplaying isn't the only reason.

There's more.(for WAOA)

1) I honestly had little in common with most of the other players except Pokemon.
-A) The only arc I really wanted to do was the Quest 64 arc. The ammount of people interested was 0. Meaning that there wasn't a single reason to bother developing Brian, Mammon, or Guilty any further. Especially after Brian broke up with Garcie. But although Mammon and Lillian got along great, the big ole' demon didn't do anything at all.

2) Homestuck. Not that it's bad or anything, but it was used so much that it drove me off. I couldn't stand how overused it was.
-A) This somewhat applies for pokemon. I love the series, but the fact that we see basically no gijinkas of other series is kind of lopsided.
-B) Speaking of that, pretty much nobody liked Digimon(except Mimi, which I didn't even know, and Ajbcool, but he doesn't really play), and those were two of my best characters. I'm not going to bother with something no one really cares about(Matice and Toyagumon, btw).

3) My roleplaying skills. Honestly, I'm not very good at them. But you know that already.

4) Raidou. I'm not so much calling you out, as the fact that the last thing you said to me when I left is that you didn't believe that I could stay away for long. You refused to even give me that chance. That really hurt, man. Honestly, I have little reason to come back from that alone.

5) My characters. Most of them were terrible with a small list of those who weren't. And those were one-offs(Goro, for example). Bassy was horrible with no redeeming factors. Nobody liked "Raven" anymore.(or probably in general these days, except maybe Cly and Raidou a little) Sure, my current list was decent, but they were boring as all hell. Shao Kahn sat around doing nothing. Amy was still just a giant bitch. Doomtrain was no better. Diabolos was about the only one that wasn't a problem. Daisy was eh at most.

...Feel free to reply.

For HSAU

1) Way too much fourth wall breaking
-A) Or metagaming, really. Yeah, I know I had Narrator who does that, but he never told a character where they came from or ever made it a major problem. The two particular offenders are Shiningknight and Mister Awesome. Shiningknight has actually acknowledged this problem and all. Mister Awesome refuses to, which pisses me off to no end. Either follow the rules, or I'm not coming back.

2) The ecchi.
-A) There's a bit too much on Cly's end. But he's gotten better. Mister Awesome, on the other hand... eegh... yeah, it's not like I don't like it, but I want to roleplay, not describe every last detail. I'll read a lemon somewhere else, please.

3) Gender Ratio
-A) This one's not nearly as important, just a pet peeve of mine. Why do we have 3 times as many female students as males? And it just happens to be Cly doing this so he can do more with Lesbian preferences. Yeah, the reason is obvious, and its tiring. I know Sun has trouble playing male characters. That's fine. There's no reason why Cly has to introduce yet ANOTHER female character. Nobody else has these problems.(I'm not terribly good at playing decent females, that's why I don't play so many)

...I really hate to do this, I really do, but I pretty much disapprove of the latest so-called "Heroic Sacrifice". And, yeah, I realize that it's coming from one who used to do it, but I've since outgrown that phase.

First off, yeah, you may have a point, but to everyone else, it's a bridge-drop. There are ways to get around canon. Hell, why else did I decide that at least "Time for Lightspeed" was non-canon in WAOA as far as Catherine's concerned? You could have easily had your characters defeat King Brian differently. That's just my suggestion, though.

Want an example of a Heroic Sacrifice done right? You weren't around for this when it happened, but aside from the obvious (hi, Flandre--even if you did come back--and Bit), Matt had one. He had to sacrifice himself to defeat the Retconinator. How did it happen? He fused himself with it, and Xenos, Yuri, and Zawman destroyed them. There was no other way around it. It was also his fate--once the Retconinator was destroyed, he would rest in peace, as he was a ghost at the time. And he wanted to atone for his past sins, thus, his sacrifice worked.

Yes, I realize that it may sound hypocritical, but...I just don't know what else to tell you. I'm sorry, I don't.

...Hopy shit, this is just getting downright vitriolic.

Yeah, part of the reason why I even suggested locking this thread was to keep the personal insults out. I mean...fuck.

BTW, like Rika said, you could have handled it a different way. And it's no an arc if it's all done off-screen. That's just backstory.

I sincerely apologize for any demeaning things I might have unintentionally said, though. But my point still stands. How much did we stick to canon, anyway? Not a whole lot. Sure, we might have with characters in the beginning, but Character Development exists for a reason. Same goes with plots that are based on works.

...Sorry. Again.

And I wasn't trying to be meta, I really wasn't.

@Rika: ...Um, not that you don't have a technical point, but it can't be backstory if they're already dead that happened offscreen. I'm more or less going to say that it's kind of both.

@Etheru: I'm talking about many instances where opinions are asked, and you give a psychological answer, but not one that feels like YOU said it. I want your opinion on something. Not that kind of observation. If you don't wish to give one, that's fine. But I'm honestly not smart enough to understand what you're saying half the time.

@Raidou: Sorry...

It's my style, if it bothers anyone, I won't do it.

Although, you just had to say so, just because I was being an ass about something about you that bugged me didn't mean you needed to be one about my psychoanalysis shit.

...I thought that Rai mentioned about the "backstory" thing, but I digress. Glad to see that you don't fully disagree, though.

@Etheru: I was not trying to sound like an ass when I talked about my disliking of the psychological answers. I apoligize if I did. Truthfully, there's a lot of things you do that annoy me, but since I'm not playing in a roleplay with you(anymore), they really aren't important, nor would it be fair to say them because I don't currently roleplay with you. I'll end it my rant/observation/complaint/wangst on that note before things escalate further than I meant.

@Rika: Quite possibly nobody cared about my Quest 64 Arc, that's why I just said "screw it" and did it offscreen. I gave the tealdeer version in the regular WAOA Discussion, because that's exactly what happened. Mammon and Guilty gave their life to help their friends defeat King Brian. Bringing Mammon and/or Guilty back after that would just sully the whole point of their Heroic Sacrifice. I don't want a Death is Cheap solution to happen to them. The only thing that I thought about that I didn't do was the possibility that King Brian was the original Brian I played in WAOA turn evil from pure Wangst(losing Garcie). And it's pretty obvious why I didn't do it from the last sentence alone.

...

If I wasn't taking a break, I would have done the arc, possibly. However, I didn't ask you to bring those two characters back. I'm just saying that there's other ways to solve conflicts.

And, obviously, there's a better solution: either shelve the arc for another time or don't do it at all, even offscreen. Had my Rescuing the Rescuer arc not gain some interest, I'd just shelve it and bring back my characters after my break, no questions asked.

Killing characters just because is cheap. I've learned that lesson the hard way in the past. And with the idea of not doing the arc, you'd place them on a bus and have them live happier lives. Maybe Mammon would write portal mail to Lillian or something.

The problem is that I'm not coming back to the roleplay(and thus, Mammon can't send portal mail to Lillian). And it's the only arc I put a really huge ammount of thought into. So to just kill it would sadden me beyond belief.

As for you doing the arc, to be fair, that would've been two(maybe three with Josh instead of just you and Revolver) interested. However, both you and Revolver left the game, putting it on Development Hell. Even if I did come back, I honestly would rather Josh stay out of it since he would've made it unbearable with that damn exposition. Atleast he would've known enough to possibly play some monsters or whatever, but outside of that...

I worked too hard in-game and out-of-game to just ignore it. I didn't bring tons of Quest 64 characters in to say "Eh, whatever, nobody gives a rat's ass, so I might as well kill it." That's the entire reason MOST of them appeared. Many were one-offs.(Mimic, Treant, Arachnoid, Hot Lips, Cockatrice) The others all had an important role. The only problem that would've occurred is Cryshell's lack of her original form. If anything, that's the only thing that would put a hitch into the works. So I just have an offscreen wizard do it, return her to normal and problem solved. Basically, they're the only two(other than King Brian) that are dead and have no way to come back. Guilty and Mammon were revived by the Eltale Book, which is lost inbetween dimensions. Their life forces were connected to it.

Before you say that's just a cheesy way to keep them written out, that's how they were brought back in the first place. All of them can be brought back ONCE. Brian was a special exception, but only in his own series and only when he was a hero. He doesn't get that power as a villain. And it was a different Brian anyway, so it matters not.

Honestly, if I wanted to actually not care, I would've killed off nearly every single one of my characters, with only Cyber Amy, Diabolos, Shao Kahn, Doomtrain, and one-offs being the exceptions. (well, Chaos Deviot dies eventually later on in canon, but that's a Heroic Sacrifice that already would happen to keep Cyber Amy alive, so it doesn't matter)

In truth? Even I thought way too much, all of it out-of-game, with my own arc. Despite it, even if I were to kill it (if there's lack of interest), I actually wouldn't mind.

And there's the idea of shelving your arc. Waiting until people are interested eventually. They would have come around eventually.

...I'm going to be honest here. I have no idea what else to say anymore aside from what I've already said. I just really don't.

I understand that, but I think you may not be seeing my point. I'm not coming back to the game. Therefore, people aren't going to care about my arc because I'm not going to be there to run it. That's what I was trying to say. Which I understand if they don't. (not that many cared about it in the first place, but that's not my point) Therefore, why shelve it when it can't come back?

I know some people didn't think it counts as a Heroic Sacrifice(which I didn't add Mammon and Guilty to the trope page under that, nor am I going to add it to their profile other than a "Planned to be" or along the lines of "It happened offscreen, and nobody actually knows in-game what happened"). Mind you, I tried to make Guilty more interesting than Mammon(and there's a case of YMMV here), despite still having Complete Monster tendencies, like creating the Rose Knights just to test out the fusion process. While the idea that they may have been tortured or worked on was kept offscreen and unknown(and was left to the imagination), the fact that he created them just for experimentation actually showed him to be a Complete Monster, even though he still wasn't such a one that people would hate.

Mind you, I have no idea if characters liked him or not, since most people were annoyed by the fact that he thinks of himself as evil, even if not every agrees. I didn't get very good feedback on him.

As for Mammon, he was pretty... plain. Maybe it's just Lem or Ozzy's opinions, but he honestly did little else than fight and was terrible at socialization.(to be fair, he's a big bad and isn't used to that kind of thing) Unlike Guilty, he wasn't in any way evil, but he still was quite ready to fight if neccesarry. Like the horrible Deathwing incident. But I doubt anyone wants to talk about that, so I would rather not elaborate on it.

Another thing is that the reason he stayed wasn't because he was Lillian's boyfriend(that came quite later), but it was because he had students to teach. He was more or less a Shallow Love Interest(YMMV), if only because he wasn't very interesting.

I have seen your point. Thousands of times.

However, I have the strong belief of "never say never". Yes, you say that you wouldn't come back now. But what if, somewhere down the line, you'd find something that makes you want to come back? The future's always changing, it's not always black and white. That's my opinion, you'll likely have your own on that particular subject.

And I must leave, if only to avoid any argument that may arise (not saying that it would, but...again, you never know).

I planned an arc, I did it off screen. Only you were intrested, Hydronix. But I didn't see the point to kill nearly all my characters.

I haven't left the game, I just need time to think, you know. I can't play a game if my thoughts always revolve around and migrate to how I was victimised.

...All I'm going to say is that using "Complete Monster" is something of a vast overstatement. To quote TVtropes...

Spoiler:

So, lemme just say that the way you've portrayed Guilty, in that he does feel guilt over some of his past actions, disqualifies him for that title. And considering you just gave him a Heroic Sacrifice ending...

That's about all I think I should say, really.

...I guess I was completely in the wrong here, after reading about what happened and gave myself some fresh time to think it over. If anything, Hydro, I'm really sorry for what I said. Yes, I wasn't completely angry when I tried to talk, but if you really did plan this, I shouldn't have said anything.

So, again, sorry.

No wrong or right. Just different viewpoints on an event that happened.

Right. At the time, I thought that, really, he was doing yet another bridge-drop. I wasn't affected by those deaths unlike the other ones, because, well, it just seemed quick. And considering that I had my fair shares of bridge-dropping deaths, not to mention the ideas of such in the past, I was a bit concerned about his plans. Hence why I didn't argue or start an argument, just stated what I needed to say in a calm, rational way (at least, I'm hoping it came across as such).

@Raidou: Well, he did have some Complete Monster tendencies, but doesn't qualify then. I think that's a fair way to put it.

@Rika: I sincerely couln't tell if you knew what I was exactly saying. I apoligize if you think I was trying to argue. But no, I'm not coming back. Ever.

@Revolver: I try to help out whoever I can. And timezones/work made it a little hard for me to join your Arc.(I even attempted to try and get more afternoon shifts so I COULD play with you, I mostly succeeded) However, "Raven" wasn't exactly a good character in the end, although it was something worth Jurgen waking up to, one of the people who really cared about him and all.

Well, Hydro, you did state some points here, so you weren't trying to argue. Having some counterpoints. And, yes, I did see what you were trying to say.

I'll admit that, even if it was so sudden, your idea was pretty decent. Unfortunately, by the time I return to the main game, I probably won't have my characters react to that. The fact that my characters haven't communicated with them much, if at all, doesn't help, unless if memory serves me wrong. Then again, things would go back to normal.

Well, if they don't know, they don't know. I'm pretty sure none of them met Mammon or Guilty, so it's understandable that they wouldn't have much of a reaction, even if they found out. Know what I mean? I understand and all, in other words.

...I admit that one of the other reasons the Quest 64 Arc never went off was because I never got to actually making the fusions or planning the dungeons(since Brian would've no longer had any wings) and so on. Though I would've severely shortened 'em anyway, but eh, What Could Have Been.

I think I see what you mean. At most, it would be, "oh, that's a shame...".

Honestly, I'm hoping I could be able to come up with good ideas with decent executions. Maybe one day.

You've got lots of time to work on ideas, though. You'll do fine, I'm sure of it. :)

Thanks.

I mean, I know that there were some good moments I've done in the past. But I don't romanticize it. I take it as a learning experience. However, I'm still striving to improve, and as you can possibly see, I have a bunch of stuff in the works. Mostly character ideas aside from my arc, but they're mostly random transformation stuff.

I admit, in hindsight, I'm pretty impressed by you. Hell, even Lemurian approved in the discussion thread! I guess I'll take it as a sign that I'll need to work harder, heh. :)

You know Hydro. I did enjoy playing with you. Didn't enjoy "Raven" coming onto Jurgen, but that's because Jurgen is a smelly, skin-diseased man-servant. Not a good image in my head. But overall, you were a good guy to interact with in the game.

@Revolver: To be fair, "Raven" looked past appearances and looked at who he was. A loyal servant who had much in common with her.

I appreciate the second thing you said, Revolver. It was just later on that quite a lot of my characters were pretty flat/boring.

@Rika: Thanks. I shouldn't give myself too much credit, since the only thing I really did was follow through with my plans, which in turn caused a not very good reaction. But eh, different interpretations, right? :P